Berlin, Dec. 30th 1904. 7.20 p.m.
Received, " 31st " 3.25 p.m.

    Komura,
        Tokio.

NO. 503.
    In reference to my telegram 501, the following is the result of my inquiry made at the Foreign Office:-
    Last September, Davidow, Russian Marine Lieutenant and Vannowsky, student of Medical Academy in St. Petersburg who had been both intend in Chingtau applied for permission to return to St. Petersburg; the former, on account of his wife being critically ill; the latter, desiring to complete his study at the University. After consideration, German Government decided to make special exception in their cases, and upon their giving word of honour not to engage again in the present war they have been permitted to return. Besides these persons and Admiral MatSuSevitz, no other Russian officers had been allowed to leave Chingtau.
    On my expressing desire that in the event of any permission to leave be granted in future to Russian officers I might be duly informed of it, I was given to understand that, while German Government would be willing at all times to give me any information desired, they cannot always undertake to take initiative in informing me of each individual case, considering that they make it principle that they alone are to judge and decide whether an application is justifiable or not.  As it had been reported in an English newspaper by a Chefoo telegram that four Russian officers had secretly escaped from Chingtau, Foreign Office has taken steps to have the matter investigated.
        Inouye.

Dated, Berlin, Jan. 3rd, 1905. 7.50 p.m.
Received, " 4th " 3.10 p.m.

    Komura,
        Tokyo.

3. In reference to your telegram 10, I saw Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Jan. 3rd and carried out instructions. He said that although he had no knowledge of report yet, he would like to assure me that the Japanese Government could rest perfectly assured that the German Government in accordance with their declared principle would do every thing in their power in the observance of their strict neutrality and that in respect of reported two Russian ships it was needless for him to state that the German authorities in Chingtau would certainly deal with them in tho same manner as in former cases, should they remain over 24 hours. Concerning latter part of my telegram 503 in reply to my inquiry, Vice Minister said that Governor of Kiaochow had reported that tho report of Russian officers secretly leaving Chingtau was entirely unfounded and that Russian officers were much irritated to hear that they had been suspected of breaking the parole. Vice Minister further added as his personal remarks that it was a matter of regret that Germany at the commencement of the war had not declared port of Chingtau to be closed to both belligerents as was the case of England with Wei-hai-wei.  Vice Minister in congratulating me on our important success at Port Arthur said that he could not however help expressing great admiration at the way in which General Stoessel had conducted the defence for so long as seven months. He was otherwise rather reserved in his remark on the event.
    Telegrams and letter of congratulation are being sent to this legation from people in different parts of Germany.

        Inouye.

Dated, Berlin, Jan 4th, 1905. 7.15 p.m.
Received, " 5th, " 6.20 p.m.

    Komura,
        Tokyo.

    5. Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs having sent for me, I saw him Jan 4th.  He said that he desired to inform me that a telegram had just been received from Governor of Kiaochou to the effect that the two Russian torpedo destroyers which entered Tsingtau Jan 2nd had been disarmed. One of our torpedo-destroyers, Shiranui, has also entered port shortly afterwards and due assurance to treat them in accordance with international law being given by the Governor to the Japanese Lieutenant who had landed, the latter had expressed himself as satisfied, and then left the port. Again in accordance with international usage, as the twenty four hours had to be counted from the time after sight had been lost of the Japanese torpedo boat, limit of time for the Russian ships had been thus somewhat prolonged. German Minister to Japan had already been instructed to advise Japanese Government of the above fact.  Vice Minister further stated that before the receipt of my letter of Jan 3rd ( my telegram 4 )  he had already seen report in the newspaper about the arrival of a steamer with 800 soldiers on board at Chingtau and instructions were immediately telegraphed to Governor at Kiaoohow to take proper measures against the above steamer, so that it is self-evident that German Gov't would not fail to take necessary steps without their attention being called and in view of the fact that Germany has always hitherto carried out her neutral obligations strictly up to letter, he hoped that Japanese Gov't feel satisfied with what they have done. He also hoped that above two cases may be now considered as settled and then remarked that with the officers, soldiers and crew of the above Russian ships, total number now interned in Chingtau exceeds force of German garrison there. From the above  statement of Vice Minister you will perceive that fact of my constantly making representation to the German Gov't seem to have somewhat wounded their susceptibility. Vice Minister also casually remarked that he doubted whether the Baltic fleet would now continue to proceed on its course to the Far East.

        Inouye.

Abschrift!

AUSWAERTIGES AMT.        Berlin,  den 29. Dezember 1904.

  (Auf den Privatbrief des Kaiserlich Japanischen Herrn Gesandten vom 15. d. M.)

    Nach amtlicher Feststellung hat das Kaiserliche Gouvernement in Tsingtau von den dort internierten russischen Schiffsehesatzungen niemand nach Schanghei entlassen. Ausser den ganz  vereinzelten Fällen, in denen bisher russische Offiziere aus zwingenden persönlichen, insbesondere Gesundheitsgründen nach Italien bezw.   nach St. Petersburg gegen Ehrenwort beurlaubt worden sind, haben weitere Beurlaubungen russischer Offiziere  aus Tsingtau nicht stattgefunden. Die der Japanischen Regierung zugegangene Nachricht, dass in der ersten Hälfte des Monats Dezember viele russische Offiziere verkleidet von Tsingtau nach Schanghai gereist wären, ist sonach falsch.

Chefoo, May13, 1905.    0.10 p.m.
R'd " " " 3.25 p.m.

    Komura,
        Tokio.

N0. 147. In reference to my Kimitsushin no. 20. dated May 4th.; the following names and ranks of Russian officers who left Chingtau secretly for home are reported by Shimidzu:-
    1) Matsevitch, Chief of the Staff of late Vitgeft,
    2) Vasilief, the Captain of Destroyer Besposhchadnui,
    3) Ivanof, the Captain of Cvarevitch,
    4) Pirkin, Kaigun-Taii, torpedo officer of same ship.
    The Cvarevitch is now under the command of Frigate Captain Shum. Cardiff coal belonging to Russian nave, stored Chingtau is 14,000 (fourteen thousand) tons. They are in coal yard, southeast of [] village situated southwest of city.

        Midzuno.

The Times Saturday, Aug 13, 1904; pg. 5

CHIFU, Aug. 12, 1 P.M.*

    Three Russian war vessels, the cruisers Askold and Diana and a destroyer, have entered the German port of Tsing-tau. According to present advices, the Novik is not with them.
    The  German cruisers Fürst Bismarck and Thetis are preparing to leave Chifu for that port. Two Russian torpedo-boats are said to have been captured on the Chinese coast.

2 P.M.*

    The Fürst Bismarck has just left for Tsing-tau.
    The preparations for her departure were made in the greatest haste.

7 P.M.*

    There is still some uncertainty as to the identity of the Russian warships that hove arrived at Tsing-tau, but there appears little doubt that one of them is the ironclad Cesarevitch or a vessel of her type.
    Two of the larger Russian war vessels that have arrived at Tsing-tau and the destroyer are taking in supplies of Cardiff coal.
    One Russian cruiser and a destroyer are now nearing Shanghai.
    There are indications that the remainder of the fleet have returned to Port Arthur. The Japanese are guarding all points.

TIEN-TSIN, Aug. 12.*

    A Russian battleship and several torpedo-boats arrived at Tsing-tau yesterday evening.

BERLIN, Aug. 12.

    The announcement that the Port Arthur fleet had made a dash for liberty, and that three of the Russian ships have sought and found refuge in the German harbour of Tsing-tau has caused a flutter of excitement in this country, by bringing Germany face to face with a question which calls for action without hesitation. The presence of the Russian warships in German territorial waters and within the sphere of German, influence appears to be admitted in Berlin. Naval commentators call attention to the fact that the German. Government has made no special declaration of policy in the event of a contingency such as has now occurred, but that Germany is bound merely by the universal practice according to which the sojourn of belligerent vessels in neutral ports or harbours is limited to 24 hours, and by the principle of International law that no hostile measures may lie undertaken in neutral territory. It is, perhaps, hardly necessary to add that the conditions which attach to these rules of International law and the consequences which a breach of them entails enter into effective operation whether so-called "special declarations of policy" have been published or not. The Press hastens to assure the world that due observance will be, paid to rule and precedent, while the Post lightly dismisses the incident as being one of purely passing interest since either Russian or Japanese vessels can "call at a neutral port."
    It is nof yet known whether the Russian fugitives have come to stay at Tsing-tau, but in view of the fact that they have apparently reached the harbour of refuge unscathed, and since they are certain to have enough coal already on board to carry them to the nearest Russian port—in this case Port Arthur—it is presumed that they propose to lay down their arms. Whether the Russians in the contrary event will enjoy an opportunity during their visit to Tsin-tau of seeing to the joints in their armour before sallying out once more against the Japanese is a question which very naturally; is not touched upon, by the greater Part of the German Press. The Vossische Zeitung, however, plainly declares that the German authorities are not called upon to provide even weary Russian cruisers with opportunities for refreshment in order that they may again enter the lists or possibly devote their renewed energies to seizing and sinking German shipping.

Отредактированно vs18 (15.08.2009 16:30:16)

yyz написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #148226
В это понятие могут входить все сразу или частью
1) разоружение (сдача замков орудий)
2) лишение возможности хода (сдача частей машины - шатунов(?) )
3) снятие части экипажа и недопущение его обратно на борт (бессмыслено, т.к. необходимо тогда размещать экипаж где-то на берегу)
4) выгрузка угля

В отношении "Цесаревича" - пункты 1 и 2.

yyz написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #148226
интересует в связи с возможностью организации побега Ц

Это - к писателям авантюрных романов.

Пересвет написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #148231
Это - к писателям авантюрных романов.

Или же альтисторических.

vs18 написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #148233
Р. М .Мельников. "Цесаревич". Часть 1. Эскадренный броненосец 1899-1906. Циндао вместо Владивостока:

Сдали немцам замки от 75-мм орудий, части от замков больших орудий и две крышки золотниковых коробок цилиндров среднего давления.

Спасибо.

теперь вопрос, можно ли изготовить две крышки золотниковых коробок цилиндров ?
в цилиндрах среднее давление-  0,49 МПа (на входе) -  0,15 МПа (на выходе).

Если можно, то следующий вопрос - возможность организовать погрузку угля для дальнего перехода (как минимум до Вьетнама, где дозагрузиться и плыть дальше)

Отредактированно yyz (22.11.2009 20:31:52)

Повреждения Цесаревича по данным английских военных наблюдателей.

vs18 написал:

Оригинальное сообщение #151060
Любопытнее, что английские военные наблюдатели пририсовали "Цесаревичу" лишние 75-мм орудия от "Бородино".

Там еще не ляпы бывают.

Расписка кап.2р.Шумова

Из Лутонина "признаться, на “Цесаревича” мы мало рассчитывали. Броненосец этот, сильнейший в нашей эскадре по вооружению, ходу и броне, был слабей всех по личному составу. Он сделал переход из Тулона в Артур, ни разу не стрелял, в бою 27 января не был, в море выходил второй раз, а какова его команда – я мог убедиться, присматриваясь к переведенным семи человекам на “Полтаву”. Кроме того, проходя часто мимо “Цесаревича”, видя полный бак матросов, поющих песни, пляшущих в то время, когда на других судах вся команда работала, можно было составить себе представление, что в непривычной боевой обстановке “Цесаревич” сдаст, на нем произойдут всякие сюрпризы, что и случилось на деле"
там же "За крейсера мы не беспокоились, видимо они проскользнули, “Цесаревич” же считали ночью подорванным и были крайне удивлены, когда через некоторое время узнали, что он благополучно стоит в Киао-Чао. Не спорю, пребывание в Циндао было несравненно лучше, чем пятимесячное расстреливание в Артуре. Но уход сильнейшего броненосца гибельно сказался на всей дальнейшей деятельности флота – в море мы больше уже не выходили".

Отредактированно сарычев (30.05.2011 14:56:10)

В Сети встречаются указания на установку экипажем "Цесаревича" в Циндао небольшого мемориального знака, в память морякам, погибшим при обороне Порт-Артура. Некоторые авторы говорят даже о неком захоронении моряков с "Цесаревича".
Подскажите, плз, достоверную инфу по данному сюжету.
С ув., М.